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Friday, 15 July 2016

A dialogue on multiculturalism between two strangers on social media

Conversation on social media is a tricky thing. 

Indeed, the opportunities to find offence in misreading another's comments are almost endless and when you add heightened emotive topics the possibility for antagonism is near absolute, even between normally rational friends. So, when you add complete strangers, many of whom use the opportunity to insult strangers as a sort of game (i.e. 'trolling') then the chance for a reasoned dialogue seems impossible. 

However, by fortune, I found myself able to share a few words with a complete stranger on a fairly volatile subject matter. Multiculturalism, in this case, his denial of it's ability to function/exist. I suppose that we were able to have a discussion was facilitated by my willingness to allow a number of assumptions to slide, rather than confront them head-on. It would have been rather easy to immediately accuse him (let's call him X) of bigotry, to start by calling X out on his implicit bias, but this, I suggest, would have stopped rather than started a conversation.

Indeed, that the majority of 'discussions' on social media (in this case, facebook) are either shouts of agreement or opposition without context or connection is the outcome of this lack. A lack of what? Reason, respect, trust? I'm not sure, but allowing another to hold a differing opinion without the desire to immediately 'correct' them seems to be the starting point. 

Is the job of the philosopher (or the philosophical thinker, or simply the reasonable) to merely correct the perceived errors of others, so that they might see the world as the philosopher does, that is, correctly? Perhaps, that should be as 'that' philosopher does, because philosophers tend not to agree with each other... 

I would suggest that instead of this didactic 'teaching' that instead what we want to be doing is rather questioning assumptions, including (it is hoped) our own. By doing this we hope to find some sort of common understanding, or else, to see the flaws in our own and others reasoning or beliefs. This is how I would define dialogue, anyway.

However, this sort of reasoned analysis is all but impossible via social media's 'chat' and it is too easy for points to become buried or lost and misinterpreted without the possibility of explanation. This is always a threat in normal conversation anyway, but it is too easy on a social media, so when even a partially open discussion happens it feels like a moral victory. Well, it certainly did to me. When X thanks me and says that he feels he learned something, I felt like we'd actually managed to communicate something.

Communication being something that social media actively distorts or removes entirely. The possibility is there, but the potential seems severely limited. My own brief conversation with X runs to not much over 1000 words but took the better part of a day to complete. Something that would take not much more than five minutes in a face to face discussion.

Anyway, below is the complete discussion. I've edited some lines together for coherence, and removed all uses of our names & minor typos. Whether I successfully changed his mind was never my goal, but hopefully we learned something from each other. You're welcome to assess my own failings and offer a differing perspective. Who knows, perhaps even start another conversation?


X: I'm all for a multi-racial society, but multiculturalism cannot work, unless you want to allow one group of people the right to FGM, arranged marriage etc etc.

Y: I don't see why you'd have to allow FGM or arranged marriage to accept another person from a different culture into this one. We have laws, these break those laws, & are therefore not allowed. Most importantly these are not the only things that define any culture.

Multiculturalism isn't about many cultures existing in isolation or one single culture that absorbs all others, but that there are many or a multitude of cultures living and working together. Multiculturalism takes an effort on both sides, WE (locals) have to learn about THEM (incomers) as well.

Also, Britain has always been multicultural and no it doesn't always work, but that's because one or both sides have stopping trying to make an effort to co-operate with other people and are trying to dominate.

X: Well you've summed it up there in your last paragraph. How do you cooperate with someone whose culture breaks the law of the land? Sikhs not wearing crash helmets, women made to cover themselves, the list goes on and on. I'm with you when you say that there is no problem if everyone abides by the law of the land, but that's the problem when the law is at odds with culture.

If you say to all people entering this country that you can enter but you must not practise this or that aspect of your culture because it is against our law to do so, then, by definition, that country cannot claim to be multicultural.

Y: As far as I know about Sikh's and crash helmets, an allowance was made along the lines that it is their choice to risk their own life by not wearing a crash helmet. They do not risk anybody else's life do they? Also, not wearing crash helmets is NOT comparable to FGM or arranged marriage. Notice how you had to move to this much lesser claim than your original one.

As for women being "made to cover themselves" that is incorrect because they choose to wear the hijab as it is part of their religion, indeed, I know that Muslim women can also choose to NOT wear the veil (in this country).

X: The hijab is not part of their religion. I offered a further example, I did not move to a lesser claim. An allowance, as you put it, to not be held to the law of the land is an example of where culture/ religion is not compatible with the law, meaning you have one law for one group and one law for another. Is that it? Is that all your argument?

Y: FGM might be an aspect of a culture, much like hooliganism or sexual abuse in places of authority is an aspect of our culture, but that is also illegal and not considered by most right thinking people to represent who we are.

X: What's your opinion on FGM and arranged marriage?

Y: Actually, allowing multiple cultural traditions within one jurisdiction (the laws of the UK) IS the definition of multiculturalism and as I said FGM or arranged marriage are not the only things that define any culture, any more than any negative aspect you might think of as part of British culture.

X: No, I can't say I understand your logic there. I understand when one refers to a culture of hooliganism in a football club but the culture of a country is somewhat different to that of a small group of non-representative people. To most right thinking people FGM and to a lesser degree arranged marriage, would be unacceptable to our culture but perfectly acceptable in others. Where does the compromise occur here?

Y: You're not getting this fundamental point, FGM is NOT the ONLY aspect of any culture any more than institutional abuse is. I'm not taking about "a culture of hooliganism" but as hooliganism as being an aspect of British culture.

 I'm glad we're talking though; I think the main problem with the country today is people with differing opinions not talking together respectfully. So thank you for that.

X: That's not a fundamental point. You are picking and choosing. I'm just pointing out the irreconcilable differences in cultures that you seem to want to ignore.

Y: I am not ignoring them and it is a fundamental point. You say that not allowing someone who comes from a culture where FGM and so on is viewed as acceptable and is therefore not allowed to practice that here is denying multiculturalism, but it is not, it is denying an ASPECT of that culture. A harmful negative aspect that the majority of nations in the world agree that it violates human rights. Indeed, that we have these laws is the reason many people move here from those countries.

Missed an earlier point... The hijab is not part of Islam? I'd have to check but I really think it is. And yes the law makes allowances for certain groups under certain circumstances. So, Sikhs argued that they didn't want to wear crash helmets for a religious reason. The law decided that it was not harmful to others and that they (Sikhs) were accepting of the risk. Someone else argues for the 'right' of FGM, the law disagrees AS it removes consent and thus is still illegal. So, yes, reasonable allowances. Remember I said that multiculturalism was about both sides learning to accept the other culture.

X: Therefore, you are changing the culture of others to fit into your own. So, multiculturalism is not, cannot be, viable. This is not learning to accept other cultures; it is changing them to conform to the incumbent culture.

Interesting exchange of views. I think I've learnt from you. Cheers

Y: Ah, here's the impasse then... I think of culture (much like a self) as a constantly changing thing (evolve or die) and so there is no problem in accepting some of other cultures in your own (as they adapt to our ways also). This is the value for me of a multicultural society, as I said to someone above, cultures like genetics benefit from greater diversity. Learning to accept IS change. Everything changes. Panta Rhei. I suspect you think not (?) and see culture as essential (unchanging). But that can never be the case, Britain today is radically different than 1950's than they were from the 1880's than... etc etc. Aren't you a different person today than you were 20 years ago? You've learned things, experienced things, some good some bad and that has shaped you. You don't have to accept it, because it's already changed you anyway. Indeed, not accepting changes things as well. Anyway...

 I've really enjoyed the discussion too and wish you all the best.


Monday, 28 December 2015

Incredible Christmas Pie

This year was a vegetarian Christmas as we were at my mum's. However, this wasn't my first so I already had some ideas about what we would cook. In years past we've used the BBC Good Food magazine vegetarian Christmas special and simply followed a recipe. A couple of months previously I'd had a trial run with a recipe of my own, that was magpied from several different chestnut roast recipes, with a little of my own added. So, being already confident with my recipe, I was able to recreate the pie Christmas eve with a minimum of fuss. We then had the pie warmed and sliced with the all the usual Christmas sides (rosemary roast potatoes, cumin roast parsnips, brussel sprouts and carrots), cranberry sauce, and gravy.

Before I lose the scrap of notepaper my recipe is written on, here is the ingredients list and basic method to make the incredible Christmas pie, AKA quinoa pie, or the fake pork pie.


Onion, red (1)
Garlic cloves (3)
Celery sticks (2)
Chestnuts, cooked and peeled (200g)
Panko Breadcrumbs (60g)
Apricots, chopped dried (50g*)
Quiona (100g)
Eggs (3)
Apple (1)
Walnuts (50g*)
Feta cheese (50g)
Lemon zest
Dried herbs, Thyme and Oregano (*)
Fresh herbs, Parsley (*)
Butter and oil
Puff Pastry


1. Pre-cook the quinoa. In a saucepan cover the quinoa with about double the amount of boiling water. I add the dried herbs at this point, but they can be added directly into the mix also, personal taste. Cover and bring to the boil, then simmer at a low heat for about 15 minutes or until all the water is gone. Set aside and let it cool.
2. Finely chop the onion, garlic and celery. Saute in a little oil at a medium-low heat for 10 minutes or until everything is soft and translucent (but not browned). Let this cool.
3. Chop the chestnuts (finely chopped will help texture and binding the pie together, but I like it a bit more 'rustic' as they say) and gently fry in butter with the zest of one lemon and chopped fresh parsley (if you have any, I didn't have any for Christmas). Finally, let this cool too.
4. In a large mixing bowl (the biggest you can find) beat the three eggs. Add the fruits and nuts you are using, for me this is one grated apple, chopped dried apricots, and chopped walnuts, but you could experiment with whatever you have to hand. Add the Panko Breadcrumbs (it doesn't have to be Panko, but I love them, they are dry and very crisp) and all the cooked ingredients (1, 2, and 3). Mix very thoroughly, start with a spoon then give up and use your hands!
5. Put half the mix in a puff pastry lined loaf tin. Save enough pastry for the top!
 Cube the feta and add to the middle of the mix, without touching any sides. Cover with the other half of the mix. Top with the pastry lid. Pinch the edges together and brush an egg glaze if desired (mix a beaten egg yolk and a little milk).
6. Bake in a pre-heated oven at 180 for at least an hour.

Serve hot, or for a better texture and flavour let it cool before slicing.

Tuesday, 24 November 2015

What I said, but funnier

Many moons ago I attempted to explain my mostly tongue-in-cheek 'handle' by way of the page "Why Godfreemorals?"

British news satire site The Daily Mash has recently forwarded a similar argument in a more amusing fashion.

Here: Atheist able to make moral decisions

Friday, 16 May 2014

Quotes worth saving (16) Dear Ridley Scott...

Over the years, many people engaged on the Alien  franchise had spoken about the need to explain the aliens - where they came from, how they were made, why they were so 'hostile', what they wanted. That was always an understandable mistake. As both figures on the screen and entities in a story, they had a magnificence, an arbitrariness, that would have been spoiled by explanation. Far more important than any causative, narrative answer to how they had acid for blood was their living up to the legendary status of being endlessly renewable, nasty, dangerous and beyond reason. To be alien is to be unknowable.

David Thomson on the Alien Quartet, p. 171 (Bloomsbury, London: 1998)